Mark Zuckerberg – Meta's AGI Plan
Episode publishedPodcast: Dwarkesh PodcastDwarkesh Podcast
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Alright, Mark. Thanks for coming on the podcast again.
Yeah. Happy to do it. Good to see you.
You too. Last time you were here, you had launched Llama three. Yeah. Now you've launched Llama four?
Well, the first version. That's right.
What's new? What's exciting? What's changed?
Oh, well, I mean, the whole field's so dynamic. So, I mean, I I feel like a ton has changed since the last time that we talked. Meta AI has almost a billion people using it now monthly, so that's, that's pretty wild. And, you know, I think that this is gonna be a really big year on all of this because, especially once you start getting the personalization loop going, which we're just starting to build in now, really, from both the context that all the algorithms have about what you're interested in feed and all your profile information, all the social graph information, but also just what you'
I'm interested to hear more about it. There's this impression that the gap between the best closed source and the best open source models has increased over the last year where I know the full family of llama four models isn't out yet, but, llama four Maverick is 35 on, chatbot arena. And then on a bunch of major benchmarks, it seems like o four Mini or g p Gemini 2.5 Flash are, beating Maverick, which is in the same class. What what do you make of that impression?
Yeah. Well, okay. There there's a few things. I actually think that this has been a very good year for open source overall. Right? If you go back to the like, where we were last year, what we were doing with Llama was, like, the only real, super innovative open source model. Now you have a bunch of them in the field. And I think in general, the prediction that this would be the year where open source, generally overtakes closed sources, the most used model models out there, I think is is generally on track to be true. I think the thing that's been, sort of a an interesting surprise, I think po
Is do you think feel like there is some benchmark which captures what you see as a North Star of value to the user, which can be sort of objectively measured between the different models and you're like, I I I need LAMA four to come out on top on this?
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