John Zito - Inside Apollo - [Invest Like the Best, EP.426]
Episode publishedPodcast: Invest Like the Best with Patr...Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
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Something I speak about frequently on Invest Like the Best is the idea of life's work. A more fun way to think about it is that I'm looking for maniacs on a mission. This is the basis for our investment firm, Positive Sum, and it's the reason why I'm so enthusiastic about our presenting sponsor, Ramp. Not only are the founders, Kareem and Eric, life's work level founders, certainly maniacs on a mission, they have created a product that is effectively an unlock for founders and finance team to do more of their life's work by streamlining financial operations, saving everyone their most precious
what you think matters and why. First off, thank you for the comments. I think I go back to the beginning of my career when loans were not even gonna be something that traded, and all of a sudden, they were all on bank balance sheets and people thought it was just complete lunacy that you would trade alone. And today, you're issuing 500,000,000,000 of CLOs today. I worked my first job out of college. I sat on a trading desk, and the guy next to me was launching a $5,000,000 credit hedge fund. And I used to get in early. I didn't even know what a bond was. And I would read up and down. I was re
I wanna come back to Athene and tell that story in detail because that's, like, a huge innovation and change in how a firm like yours is structured. But I wanna also ask first about your perspective on The US', the America's role in global capital markets, maybe, like, in your whole career, and how you see that might change prospectively with what seems like more of a schism in capital markets, in geopolitics, in all these sort of big things. Yeah. Look.
Right now, it's obviously a big focus. I think all of the discussion is around tariffs. I worry much less around tariffs than the public narrative, and I'm hyper focused on just our position in a effectively monopolistic position in capital markets. We've been the beneficiary of so many things by having the biggest equity market, the place everybody goes to go public, the best venture capital market. If you wanna do a growth company, you're coming to to the Valley. You're coming to The US to get a term sheet. I went and met with a company that actually does precede rounds last week, and they s
density. Just
yeah. And well, debt talent density, but also just very clear rules of the road on how things operate. And the thing that worries me a little bit, and there's no place really to put money now. There's no real capital market big enough. But with all the uncertainty going on, you do see new changes in Europe, potentially changes in securitization rules. We have a $15,000,000,000,000 securitized market here in The US. There's a 500,000,000,000 securitized market in Europe. The economies aren't that different in size. We're 30,000,000,000,000 here. We're 24,000,000,000,000 in Europe. Multitrillion
the last twenty years. One of the beautiful components of The US system is also innovation in types of financing. And I love your perspective on, like, the key hash marks on the historical timeline Yeah. For these key innovations going back fifty years or something like this. Maybe junk bonds in eighties is, like, the first notable one to
talk about. Yeah. We can we can start there. I think about more distribution function, ETF market. How do people package and consume products, innovation and products? Where's there been product innovation where there hasn't been product innovation? You look at the ETF market. Started in '93. '90 '3. We got to a trillion dollar ETF market probably o nine, and then we're north of 10,000,
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