#481 – Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, Blitzkrieg, LSD, MKUltra & CIA
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The following is a conversation with Norman Oller, author of Blitzed, Drugs in the Third Reich. A book that investigates what role psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine played in the military history of World War two. It is a book that two legendary historians, Ian Kershaw and Anthony Beaver, give very high praise to. Ian Kershaw describes it as very well researched serious piece of scholarship, and Anthony Beaver describes it as remarkable work of research. And it is indeed a remarkable work of research. Norman went deep into the archives using primary sources to
I think you're right to ask about the context, because without the context, it's not really understandable. So what was the situation? In the twenties, the Nazi movement basically started, and it started in Bavarian beer halls. So alcohol was the drug of choice of the early Nazi movement. The only guy that didn't drink was Hitler. He was a teetotal like, as you say. So, that was happening in Munich. So alcohol and national socialism are very closely connected. At the same time in the twenties, in Berlin, there was a completely different thing going on. People were taking all kinds of drugs. Th
in the morning and then making crazy moves. Could you speak to the nature, the motivation of the drug use in in Berlin at the time? Was it rebellion? Was it a way to deal with the difficult economic depression? Was it just the natural thing that young people do to explore themselves, to understand the world, to develop their culture? Like, what what do we understand about drug use there?
All of these factors come together. But it was the first time in modern history, in Germany at least, that there was no emperor. Like, that, Kaiser Wilhelm, everything was very strict. You know? You had to you you couldn't you couldn't go crazy, you know, as a young person. You couldn't be a young person. But now in the Weimar Republic in the twenties, you could. No one stopped you. So people went crazy. Like, that's what made Berlin into the city that it still somehow is. And maybe later we talk about contemporary Berlin. It kind of it it it still has that vibe, you know. That's why people st
Can we also take attention there? Because you have a connection to this place, Berlin and this part of the world. Can you just briefly speak to that so we can contextualize even deeper the personal aspect of this? Because you understand the music of the people, the land, its history. There's there's something you can only really understand if you've been there, and you have taken it in. And we'll return to this topic in in multiple contexts, but in in this particular way, as as one human being who writes about this place, what's your own story? I grew up in West Germany, and this was during th
And Berlin, the walled in city was always like a big fascination. Because there was a wall. There was actually a wall in the city preventing people to move into another part, and I was from the West fortunate enough to be from the free West. So I could travel to Berlin, and I could leave. I could look at it, and I always loved Berlin. I thought it was a very vibey place. And then when the wall came down, I was still in school, but I, like, immediately got into the car of my parents and drove there. I wanted to see how it came down. And then Berlin really in the nineties became a place that was
So you're kinda like a like a German Kerouac type character, but moved a few decades forward.
I wouldn't compare myself to another writer, but I think Kerouac is pretty cool. But he's an he's an amphetamine writ
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