Mitu Gulati on Whether Trump Could Restructure US Debt

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.

And I'm Jo Wiesenthal. Jo,

you know what I like to say about bonds? Go

on.

I think there's this perception that bonds are all about finance and legalities. Yeah. They are these contracts, and borrowers have to stick to the contract. Lenders have to stick to the contract. But, actually, I like to look at bonds as more stories. Yeah. And I know we've been talking on this podcast a lot about norms and the idea that a lot of the way The US operates is based on norms and habits that have developed over time, bonds are kind of the same way. It's all about the narrative of who owes whom what and why, and that can change really quickly.

You know what's actually interesting about you you saying this? I was thinking back to our episode that we did with, Sujit Indap about creditor on creditor violence. And perhaps one way to think about that whole phenomenon is the exploitation of rules above norms. Right? So you have all of these norms about how debt is paid back, etcetera, and there's, like, extra alpha to be squeezed by actually redoubting to the courts and the rules that are literally written down in a fight between creditors about who gets the cash flows, etcetera. And it really is about this tension of, like, what's writte